Dating savage 340
Also, I have found numerous transition carryover of parts between the series, and this would be common in the industry when using up existing older parts inventory. And suffix model letters were only important in the spare parts department, or later gunsmiths needing parts something the sales department was oblivious of.
With the introduction of the , the bolt handle was changed to the more common round knob type. The handle's attachment to the rear bolt body was changed s omewhere during production of the bolt handle being pressed onto a horizontally knurled rear bolt body was apparently later changed to being silver soldered on OR a good gunsmithing repair on one that I saw. The stock was changed to plain uncheckered oil finished walnut with no grip cap for the standard guns and was modernized somewhat toward the latter production years.
The C initially sported a plain oil finished stock with white line grip cap and buttplate spacers shown in a magazine advertisement. It is my guess that some changes in the stock of the C could have been done, leading up to when the D model came out. Pressed checkering was used on some later models, essentially the late D and E series. And then by late production D series, no checkering. I validate this as I have found a D series with serial number ,46X no prefix that had a plain stock. Also I have the front ramp sight residing on a with the Dockendorff name impressed in it as seen in the RH photo below.
All ramped front sights were attached using 2 screws and were brass beaded blades as compared to the square top of the I have seen Bs using the front ramp with intregal gold bead sight as seen below. The magazine construction was changed from the Stevens for the Savage to a stamped out single sheet of steel, made like an open box, then formed and riveted together producing a simple secure box magazine.
The method of securing the ends to the sides was covered under patent 2,, The tooling required for this procedure was rather complicated, but in the long run produced a better magazine as far as manufacturing was concerned. The best way to measure a barrel length, is to close the bolt on an empty chamber and run a ramrod in from the muzzle until it stops at the bolt face. Mark this on the ramrod at the end of the muzzle. Now measure the ramrod to the mark, that will be your barrel length.
I have not seen nor heard of special barrel lengths on this rifle other than those listed , so if yours is different usually shorter someone has attached it with a hacksaw. Initially the B in Rem. The suspicion for changing this extractor was that over time, this C type extractor became ineffective, and reloading was becoming popular if trying to soup the load up causing extraction problems. In addition to this there was a new plunger style ejector installed in the back side of the bolt face.
For this version, the old rear pivoted ejector was abandoned. The , since it came in later than the used the then existing system. In the RH photo below the extractor is visible opposite the ejector. It lists but with no illustration a different type pivoted extractor, being.
Since this cartridge uses the same basic rim as the Again, there seems to a a strong kinship of this extractor to the Remington model in as seen in the photos below. Now, I am making an observation as to why this change would have been made in the and instead of using the style extractor. In the photos below you will see the difference of the Win. It needed to be designed to be able to lock over the cartridge rim and yet have enough metal to allow the bolt assembly to slide inside the receiver freely. This extractor is pivoted just aft of it's midsection with a small coil spring under the tail.
That is fine if you had the gun in front of you and were ordering parts. Then I have found mistakes there also. The was made in , and Remington later the Remington , using the same receiver and most other common parts from the other than magazine related. The receiver had a smaller ejection port opening and magazine well cut out, the rear magazine latch was moved forward.
The magazine holding 4 rounds, was a scaled down version of the stamped out The trigger assembly is just that. It consists of a stamped out sheet metal U shaped housing that is screwed onto the bottom of the receiver by 2 screws. The front screw of this attachment also secures the rear magazine latch. Then all the internal parts, trigger, sear, sear cam, magazine stop along the sear and trigger springs are secured together in this unit by rivets, after it is screwed onto the receiver. The spring's function are a bit unorthodox.
Since it is an assembled unit, if you need to do any work on the trigger unit, some of the rivets need to be deheaded to facilitate removal. Any gunsmithing on these trigger units lowering the pull weight will have to be minimal, as the trigger sear notch engagement CANNOT be lessened much without creating a safety issue, because the safety lock which was not sold separately permanently AND riveted to the trigger housing has sloppy clearance into the top of the trigger slot corresponding to the trigger sear engagement. However if I were to try to adjust these triggers, my thoughts would be to make a simple U shaped sheet-metal clip that would slide over the lower rear of the trigger housing above the pivot pin, then drill and tap on one rear side the trigger is split in the center for the spring thread this clip for a SMALL machine screw so it would bear on the side of the rear of the trigger, giving you an adjustment for engagement.
Then JB Weld this clip in place on the housing. This would allow you to play with it, while not having the hassle of unriveting and reassembling of the trigger unit and you would not ruin anything. BUT be careful of the safety lock issue as that is the limiting factor. The safety lever had a small change by looking at the part numbers that I have not identified yet at the "B" series. The one aftermarket scope base designed just for this gun was the side mount Weaver 1 base. Other scope mounts were made, another being Williams. When installing scopes on these rifles, they having to be side mounts because of the open rear receiver bridge, and the bolt handle passing through it, stock wood would have to be removed on the LH side of the stock to accommodate the scope mount.
Later stocks used on factory tapped guns were lowered to accommodate scope mounts. Early on, t he factory did offer a deluxe version of this rifle, being the Models S and S both were introduced in and ran until at least , which featured better wood with cut checkering similar to what was common on the model 99 at that time, a Savage peep rear sight, hooded gold bead front sight, drilled and tapped for peep and scope and sling swivels. Where the "S" suffix designation comes from is unknown, unless it had some reference to meaning "Special" at that time.
I have had numerous inquiries trying to pin down the exact date of manufacture. This is not possible UNLESS you can acquire the original sales receipt but what are the odds with this happening , but by reading this article and applying what you read, you may be able to come up with a guestimate to within a few years time frame. If that is not acceptable to you, - SORRY - but that is the best I can do, as this article is probably your only source if information for these non prefix serial numbered guns. Do not try to date your gun by the condition of the metal or the color of the stock.
Gunsmiths have for years been earning a living rebluing of firearms, some can reproduce original finish quite well where only an expert can tell the difference, while others fall woefully short. And the stocks can be refinished or replaced because of being broken. Sights can be removed or replaced by non standard ones. There appear to not be any readily accessible records if any for these models, and prior to the Gun Control Act of , as serial numbers appear to not required before that date. And dates for many of these slight variations are unknown. Also do not try to date a firearm by the rear sight.
These are one thing that is sold by aftermarket companies like Lyman or Marbles which are things that some hunters prefer different styles so are probably the first thing changed on a gun. As far as we can tell by observation, the original model was not factory drilled and tapped for a side mount scope base. However the 2 peep holes on the far LH receiver would have been carried over from the Stevens C with the 's introduction in I have seen photos of a A being drilled and tapped for scope mounts which has all the indications of being factory, which in all probability was indeed a S, or was possibly a late A, as most Bs appear to be drilled and tapped for scope.
However the "Deluxe" S in actually the deluxe versions were drilled and tapped for scopes before the later B series entered the scene. From my research, I find that the nor 22 Hornet were not drilled and tapped for the side mount scope, where the was. It also appears that the designated model in 22 Hornet was changed to just the and then the caliber. I suspect this was coinciding with the introduction of the , where they instead of coming up with a different model for the that they simply used the caliber for identification purposes.
My observations are that the caliber stampings were moved to the barrel when the B was introduced, as compared to it being on the receiver along with the make and model of the earlier Springfield and Savage As. I have seen one A at a gunshow that did not have the gas shield on the cocking piece. However I have a reader who supplied photos of his A that show no caliber marking on the receiver, but on the barrel, and it has the gas shield of the later B guns.
It also had the Dockendorf rear sight. All this tells me that during this transition period, old parts were used up and you may find many combinations. The misspelled CALIBRE roll may have been set aside as a backup roll which could be used if the correct one broke, and before a new good one could be made. Later during the D series, the maker and address was also moved to the LH side of the barrel. It appears the peep holes may not have been discontinued until way late in the production as shown in a photo below of a Springfield , where it still has the peep mounting holes.
However I have seen one with no peep holes so this seems to have been about the end of the peep holes. Therefore a misinterpreted date code of a model C series rifle could not have been made in as per the C may be inferring, as that model was discontinued by then. Then if you try to apply that the to the model C, the C series was in all probability not introduced by then. Sorry guys to break your knowledge bubble.
And on one of the gun forums a response to my non prefix serial number question, there was supposed to be a barrel date code for the Chicopee Falls guns. Yes, there are a circle with one or two numbers and a letter stamped on the rear LH side usually immediately in front to the receiver. One barrel has a slightly larger, looks like a backward 3, but probably a just tilted 8 stamp. These multiple marks would be indicative to me that they are NOT date codes, but assembly inspectors marks.
If it was a date code, then why the second different marks on the same barrel? One of these guns with markings was a V, which was made later at the Westfield Mass plant. You may see some of these rifles with a serial number that do not contain a prefix letter. I have not located any Bs with a non prefixed serial number. Now to throw something that goes against some that I have observed. I have corresponded with a owner of a C, Chicopee Falls, Mass.
If that is the case, then maybe the factory DID start serial numbering the s prior to the gun control law, possibly near the lates?? NOTE, it was common for firearm manufacturers in those days to NOT start a model serial number sequence at 1, sometimes 1, or possibly 10, or even , as to not share production information to competitors as to the numbers being produced.
Also, it could be possible that some of these non-prefixed serial numbered guns may have used receivers intended for the mass merchandisers that they were producing these same guns for, at that same time. So we are in the dark as to when THESE non prefixed serial numbers actually started or even at what model suffix letter or ended. But surely when the Gun Control Act of entered on the scene and the new numbering system started in However if it has Chicopee Falls, Mass. Initially it seems the non prefixed serial numbers were stamped on the RH front receiver ring, later at least in the B serial number prefix range, they was moved to the center LH side of the receiver, where if scoped it would have been covered up.
Then again later to the front LH side of the receiver ring. Serial numbers were the last factory operation and done after the gun was assembled and blued. So a Model 99 gun could have the next number as a model rifle or model 94 shotgun, just depending on the order they left the assembly line that day. However word was that the serial numbers were usually assigned in lots relating to the number of guns contained in a shipping case.
The serial numbers would use the prefix letter and the firearms individual number up ,, then it started over using the next alphabetical letter.
Dating savage 340. Savage Feeding Problem
The factory published a listing of serial numbers at the beginning of each year for use by their warranty centers, which this chart below is an example of that I acquired from Savage as a Warranty Center. If and when I do enough up close and personal exposure to more actual guns to where I can be a lot surer than I am now, as to close to possible dates of suffix changes, again we will have to accept just a SWAG.
I want to thank those readers who have, AND CAN supply good photos and known dates of purchase with suffix model of non prefixed serial numbered guns. One way to also narrow dates down in addition to what I have supplied here is the manufacturer's address stamped on the rifle. If it has Chicopee Falls, Mass. And of course, if it has a prefixed serial number, it was made after and of course made in Westfield Mass.
Somewhere between the model A and the B it appears that the front of the bolt body ejector slot was changed replacing the front gas shield clip was the same as the rear one piece clip of the model around the front bolt body, eliminating a weak area. This long ejector slot in the bolt seemed to be a carry-over from the and was not needed when using the new style of pivoting spring operated ejector. I have seen two s that had an A hand stamped behind the factory , indicating again using up earlier parts after a parts change was introduced.
Now I have also seen a A with a hand stamped B behind the existing factory A. It APPEARS that most of the series letters were in alphabetical order when a new change was made in production, and NOT in direct collation to variations or specific models, like a C representing a carbine, or E representing magazine ejector as many may think , however possibly just a coincidence. The model appears to end discontinued at the "E" series, however there is an "S" and "V" thrown into the mix earlier than when the E series came out.
It also APPEARS that there was no long range documented planning as to model suffix series designations in relationship to manufacturing changes. By checking factory parts lists, the cocking piece cap was introduced with the B. The factory name and caliber was moved to the barrel sometime during the C series. There were some shorter barreled But if you look at the photo above of the Stoeger catalog, the factory at that time called all of these guns carbines, mainly because of their size.
I have not found any real suffix letters specifically assigned to the carbines. Of the carbines that I have seen, they all were in the C series but I believe the C did not indicate carbine, again just a coincidence. However I did see a factory add for the carbine listing it as a C. I did find a NRA Rifleman page dated November of announcing the new C carbine, and somewhere else that carbine production was from to Remember barrel length is measured from the bolt face to the muzzle, not just to the front of the receiver.
The bolt handles were changed again late in production, about the time the "C" came into production, being swept rearward slightly. Some late bolt knobs were even knurled in the center at the largest dia. And in all my observation, I have not seen any caliber other than Rem in any Savage D guns. There may be s in the D series, and if any reader has one, please contact me. There is possibly one exception here, probably the last model the "V" series used on their Varminter series which was the then new Winchester.
The Gun Traders Guide does not show the "D" series, but the factory parts book does, and only in Remington which apparently had a short life.
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In the photo below, you will notice that all the lettering AND caliber designations are roll stamped on the barrel, leaving the receiver for the serial numbering. It is beginning to be my belief that this D series was when the factory introduced the new plunger style ejector and corresponding extractor for the and then carried over in the E series for the OK, maybe not totally, but transitioned or possibly a carry over using the hornet extractor verified from parts list showing the plunger ejector DH, as the D on this part number should indicate the D series and the H refers to the 22 Hornet caliber.
In the photo above, the rear sight is a typical late Savage sight, being the dovetailed long tang, but having the blade being able to fold down if need be to clear a scope end bell. In this photo the elevator is missing however. The top is now a , being made up of parts including the barrel , but probably a LATE "C" or possibly D version in the B,XXX serial number range, as it has no provision for the pivoted ejector and uses the plungered style ejector.
Note the moved forward rear magazine latch on the upper gun and the bulkier sintered metal trigger which apparently was nickel plated as they were so oil impressed that blueing them was impossible. The bottom action is a model in as evidenced by the magazine latch configuration and no gas shield on the cocking knob. These Savage guns were produced in 22 Hornet, Remington, with the Remington, and Winchester following that last calibers inception sometime after I have not been able to document the exact date of the being introduced, but very likely in late as I have seen a magazine add mentioning it as new for , and as this cartridge was introduced by Remington in , and since Savage had this model already in production it was simpler to design a new magazine by for this caliber and make few alterations to the rifle, getting it out close behind the Remington rifle.
The V was made in Winchester and was produced in the mid s but sales were slow, and I have viewed only one in the late E series, but it was not very popular, which could have been one of the clean up assemblies. The model and S were 22 Hornets only, and were the newer versions of the older Stevens model The in was produced from to Probably it's demise was the popularity of the new Rem. When this E series was introduced and using the new magazine ejector spring, the magazine dies were altered by deepening the notch at the juncture of the rear feed lips and the main body.
Upon depressing the rear magazine latch, the magazine was supposedly ejected from the floorplate without having to grasp it in the finger groove area that was cut out of the earlier stocks. The late Es had no peep mounting holes. One had plain wood, but not sure if original. Another had pressed checkering. The 22 Hornet in whatever model always used it's own style flat floorplate because the Hornet magazine had side lips holding the bottom on, which facilitated magazine removal.
In the photo below showing the model E you can see the flat floorplate and the newer sweptback bolt handle among with the pressed checkering on the walnut stock. Most E series have also observed using a Lyman folding rear sight. This series, in addition to the flat floorplate also had a slightly enlarged trigger guard, moreso at the rear part. Penny model , Western Auto Most of these firearms used hardwood birch wood which could have had minimal pressed checkering.
http://taylor.evolt.org/hizoj-dating-websites.php These guns could have had their own serial numbers outside of the Savage numbering and probably even before And by the Federal law, if a firearms dealer quits selling firearms, they have to relinquish their records to BATF, so there is no real way to gather any of this information today. Also on these mass merchandiser guns, some my not follow the model numbering pattern as seen in a Coast to Coast model we have, which should have been basically a Springfield , using the Savage E magazine ejector spring where this gun does not use it, but the finger grooved stock for grasping the magazine, so it had to be a C birch stocked gun.
Which tells me again the factory found a way to utilize existing obsolete parts. Two models that can be traced are Anschutz name made on Sako actions in 22 Hornet and Remington. Of these it appears that they used standard Savage 22 Hornet and magazines. The 22 Hornet was model I am not sure the model for the , possibly the same just a different caliber designation.
This model came with deluxe wood, rollover cheek-piece, skip-line checkering, white line butt-plate and grip cap with a schnabble forend. It also was iron sighted with a hooded ramp front sight. As far as we can tell, NONE of the model or guns, or the very early s were factory drilled and tapped for a side mount scope base, which very likely may have been implemented in the A or early Bs.
When installing scopes on these rifles, they having to be side mounts because of the split rear receiver design and will have to be gunsmith drilled and tapped as a side mount to accommodate the Weaver 1 base. And the stock will need to be relieved to accommodate this base once it is screwed onto the receiver. For the Savage made mount, it was a stamped 3 piece sheet metal scope mount base and 2 one half rings that was thin enough to be able to be inserted in a shallow recess between the receiver and the outer part of the stock of some stocks as seen in the photos below.
You will not find any markings on this mount as it was only sold by Savage and during later production, it was included with the new gun. These were basically what Savage later copied for their 1" mounts, using Weaver's hole spacing. The early Weaver side mount scope rings were made differently than later ones, whereas the rings themselves were not removable from the top assembly. The scope ring assembly was removable from the base, but not the individual rings themselves off the top assembly being split as compared to removable in modern times. In the RH photo below, you will also note that since these are side mount, where they have to overhang enough to align the scope to the bore of the rifle.
Yes, fogging was common, I have starting out on a cold morning, using a Weaver K2. This worked fine the rest of the day as both inside and outside temperatures were slow to adjust together. The photo below, with this model being , having no suffix AND it being drilled and tapped for scope in somewhat proper location , with the stock wood being cut out for the scope mount tells me that this gun was altered drilled and tapped for scope use after leaving the factory.
In this photo, you can see the 4 scope mounting holes for a side mount and the appropriate stock cut out. Factory mount cut-outs did not have square cuts in the stock. The single round hole between the scope mounting holes and the peep holes is where the ejector unit is pivoted into buried under the wood. The metal on top of the bolt is a bolt guide, as the top of the receiver is split for the bolt handle base to slide thru. This rib is also seen on the top. You will also note the peep holes tapped. With these side mounts on this model, for the scope to properly be centered over the bore, the wood has to be cut on the earlier guns that did not have the lower stock line.
Many not so knowledgably gunschmits did not understand this and just laid the scope base on top of the wood, which rotated the scope farther to gain a scope truly over the bore. You will be advised that in those days gunsmiths did not have access to scope mount drilling jigs which accommodates the barreled action and somewhat guarantees proper alignment. In these early days a gunsmith would clamp the base to the receiver, laying out his desired location.
If everything then looked OK, drill the others. IF NOT, then do some slight altering of the base holes so the other last 2 would make things come into place.
Then lastly elongate the second hole to allow that screw to be secured down along with all the others. The problem with this model, the receiver was round, not having a flat bottom as a reference to square to. And drill presses in those days were not as rigid as today's ones or milling machines are. The wood of the later versions especially the E series was made lower at the area where the scope mount attached so that there was no need to alter the wood to install a scope mount on these guns.
In the photo below, these scope mount holes are pretty well placed in the proper location, but obviously non factory because of the defacing of the lettering. These early guns also had the caliber stamped on the receiver, so in mounting a scope the caliber markings were also covered up.
The later B guns moved the caliber marking to the barrel. In the photo below, you will notice the Weaver scope mount rings protrude considerably forward from the base. The standard rings are the same length as the base and in many cases do not provide for enough room on the scope to achieve proper eye relief because of restrictions of the placement of the turret mountings. In the photo below, you will note the numerous cross slots so that the scope can be adjusted more to fit the shooters eye and the eye relief of the scope.
The only thing I have been able to identify different from the and the A which they as seem to not be made in any abundance as I have only seen a couple is that the magazine latch protrusion was changed from the riveted thin metal finger piece to the actual spring metal being formed rearward, creating a better surface to push. The C apparently was essentially a deluxe which had checkering, sling swivels and came with a peep rear sight. It was made during the mid s.
Where I got this I am not sure and it does not make sense unless the author was looking at a single owner enhanced gun. The last of the series, the E series was also made under the Springfield name as an E. There was a big C shaped wire spring inside the stock magazine well that straddled the magazine and was caught into the notches at the front of the magazine feed lips.
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In operation, when you depressed the rear magazine latch, this spring ejected the magazine. One word of information here, IF you have this E model in and happen to find a magazine assembly for the older models that does not have this extra deep notch cut out, it will not function as designed. This also pertains to the series guns, you will have to deepen these notches to within.
This amounts to lowering them about. The E series may have also been made in the other calibers of that timeframe, but did not utilize the spring ejector magazine system that the used. Also somewhere in the late made guns the bolt guide rib gas shield on top of the bolt was changed to black plastic instead of steel. The safety, in the ON position, no longer locks the bolt handle, enabling the shooter to remove a round from the chamber without changing the position of the safety.
You will notice on the above factory quote, they do not mention any Suffix lettering on the which at that time likely would have been C. Below are the magazines used on the respective calibers. The and rifles used the same style magazines and have a capacity of 3 rounds, then with one in the chamber giving the gun a capacity of 4 rounds.
These magazines have transitioned with many changes during the lifespan of these models. Nowhere on ANY of these magazines is the makers name embossed. Note the serrations on the later versions for the magazine removal at the finger gripping area. The follower is beveled at the rear for the rim to feed over on the last round and to guarantee all the rounds are positioned the same as they come up for chambering.
Rifle does not fire. Oops, he did not take the safety off. After unloading, I was able to reproduce the AD every time. When safety was set to "Fire", the complex trigger sear was back enough to release striker. After cleaning trigger mechanism and bolt, and proper light oiling, the safety works as expected; no fire on "Safe", and rotating safety to "Fire" does not drop striker. Maybe it was due to difference in design, or quantity of grease. Thanks to all for the info. Yes,I have taken the action out and cleaned thoroughly.
Better to err on the side of caution. The rifle is a bulky sort with its oversize walnut stock and all,but its a decent rifle for the money I have into it and I like it. I'm partial to old time workmanship. The little Hornet is fun and cheap to shoot. Yeah, If I found one in 22 hornet, I would jump on it. Saw one on here a while back in which tempted me. Was going to use it as a youth rifle to loan to nieces and nephews but the AD issue kind of freaked me out and I don't really want anyone else using it. Since I cleaned it good, I haven't been able to replicate the issue, but it is always kind of in the back of my mind if you know what I mean.
Originally Posted by cv I reload - I have often thought what sleek little rifle they would be if all the extra wood was removed. As is, they remind me of the old Mossberg bolt action shotguns. The hardest part is finding a big buck. The easiest part is getting "em" out. Print Thread Switch to Threaded Mode. Admin , Global Mod , Mod. You are not logged in. Savage differences [ Re: